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TOPIC: Planning permission denied for local cafe

Planning permission denied for local cafe 01 Nov 2016 19:10 #2373

Jenny Bourke Jenny Bourke's Avatar Topic Author
We were very concerned to hear during filming that Starfish Loves Coffee have been denied planning permission to slightly alter their premises, see reasons for the decision here
planningandbuildingcontrol.enfield.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=O5GLUNJNFYF00
It's very upsetting that a new small business which adds something to our neighbourhood is not being supported.
The following user(s) said Thank You: John Phillips, David Eden

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 01 Nov 2016 19:12 #2374

Jenny Bourke Jenny Bourke's Avatar Topic Author
If you wish to support Starfish Loves Coffee with their appeal please write to Head of trading standards and licensing PO Box 57 Civic Centre Silver Street Enfield EN1 3XH

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 01 Nov 2016 20:39 #2375

There is some confusion here. What follows is my understanding of the situation, which I have to say is difficult to disentangle. So if anyone knows better, please comment accordingly.

Planning permission and licensing are strangely enough separate matters with separate rules and can be in conflict.

Planning permission is about the built or natural environment. In this case there were three aspects to the planning application, only one was about changes to the building. The others were about use of the pavement in Lakeside Road, and the proximity to other cafes, which is limited under a basic planning policy adopted by Enfield in 2014. All aspects were refused in July 2016. I don’t know what will happen next about this; so far as I can see it is up to the applicant to appeal. This has to be directly related to the grounds for the refusal. Neither do I know what would happen if there is no appeal or an appeal fails.

Licensing is about hours and conditions of operating. Starfish have applied for a significant extension of opening hours which currently end at 10pm, to end at midnight on four nights week, half-past midnight on one night and 1.30 am on two nights. The proposal is that the alcohol licence starts at 10 am rather than as now noon (11 am at weekends). This will end 30 minutes before these proposed later closing times rather than 9.30pm as now. That is not to say that these hours will inevitably be used, just that they could be. The licence condition says that the tables and chairs have to be cleared from the pavement by 8pm. These are the ones for which there is no planning permission…..

Comments on the licence application are due by 10 November according to the LBE website, though the press notice says 28 days from the date of the (undated) notice which appeared in the press on 26 October. Make of that what you can.

However, whatever happens about the licence application, it won’t change the planning situation. If the extended hours are agreed by the licensing authority, the planning permission will still be lacking pending a successful appeal, and submissions to the licensing authority can't change that.

At least that's my interpretation.

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 03 Nov 2016 07:32 #2377

Hi Jenny,

My family and I and i will get you more supporters to back you all the way, I was born and bred in Palmers Green so our passion for improvements is a must, the residents and overall public do not want to see rundown, dreary shops, we want to see welcoming shop fronts, as they are a reflection on the owner and how they feel about the customers and the community, the area is already had changes made by building new apartments near Palmerston Crescent, some selling for millions, so to turn down your application because you want to make new is absurd bureaucracy! The council always likes to use the word No! It makes them feel empowered,
The following user(s) said Thank You: John Phillips, Jenny Bourke

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 03 Nov 2016 20:49 #2379

Whatever the Planning / Licensing position, its certainly seems to be the case based on many unprompted comments that Starfish has projected a very positive reputation well beyond PG. It also apparently fills a gap (when open) for local women to socialise in an evening, particularly those who don't want to be in 'Spoons. A point for The current Fox deliberations perhaps.

3 cafes within 50m = "clustering" = a decline. Professor Michael Porter of Harvard, long time guru of the positive effects of clustering, eat your heart out. Somehow I think boxes and ticking may just have overtaken reality on the ground.
The following user(s) said Thank You: John Phillips, Jenny Bourke

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 04 Nov 2016 09:48 #2380

Jenny Bourke Jenny Bourke's Avatar Topic Author
Thank you Kaye and Karl, the cafe isn't mine Kaye, I just enjoy going in there as I do with other cafes and restaurants on Aldermans Hill. As Karl says, if you know there are a few places in a particular area you will go there and make your choice according to your needs/ wishes at the time.I hope local residents will stand up for a new and lively business which adds to the area, elevating it rather than depressing it.

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 09 Dec 2016 18:37 #2490

Can I point out that the fundamental problem is caused by the 2014 Development Management Document which is against the change of use. The other issues don't prevent Starfish operating as now so conservation is not the main problem. And since it seems to be being reported that "local conservation" has been defeated in a court case, can I say yet again that there was no court case (there was a licensing committee hearing) and that the Lakes Conservation Group had nothing to say about the licensing application.

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Planning permission denied for local cafe 11 Jan 2017 16:43 #2592

Another staggering and appalling case of failed local government bureaucracy.

Starfish is wonderful for a magnitude of reasons - not lease, as mentioned, the availbility of a very pleasant evening environment for women of the locale to socialise. This is exactly what the Lakes area needs, Palmers Green is bereft of pleasant & classy drinking venues. The clustering argument is particularly pathetic given one of the three is a horrendous greasy spoon dive. Places like Baskervilles and Starfish are positive contributions that breath life into an area and should be encouraged, not held back due to NIMBYism (e.g. the perfectly respectable application to use a small dead area of wasted unused space for external seating).

I wish I'd come to this earlier to be able to lend my support.

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